The federal government plans to kill 450,000 barred owls over 30 years to protect the northern spotted owl — while simultaneously narrowing the definition of harm under the Endangered Species Act to allow old-growth forest logging that will destroy the spotted owl's habitat. Wayne Pacelle, president of Animal Wellness Action and the Center for Humane Economy, joins Corinna Bellizzi to expose the timber industry logic behind both moves. Together, they explain what's happening to wild horses and wolves on America's public lands, and share what 35 years of animal protection work has taught Wayne about how a slippery slope can lead to environmental devastation. We must act to protect America's open spaces and wild habitats. 00:00 — Introduction: The Spotted Owl, the Barred Owl, and the Question of Whose Fault It Is 04:00 — The 14-Mile Zone of Life: How Much Room Do We Actually Share? 06:00 — The Northern Spotted Owl: History, Habitat, and the Timber Wars 10:00 — The Barred Owl Is Not Invasive: The Range-Expansion Argument 14:00 — Human Beings Crossed the Bering Land Bridge: Applying the Same Logic 18:00 — The Plan to Shoot 450,000 Owls: Why It Won't Work 20:00 — The Endangered Species Act: How the Definition of Harm Is Being Gutted 23:00 — The One Big Beautiful Bill and the 60% Timber Increase 27:00 — Old Growth Redwoods, Carbon, and the True Cost of Logging 30:00 — The Lawsuit and What Comes Next 32:00 — Wild Horses: 80,000 vs. 4.3 Million Cattle 36:00 — Wolves: Delisted for Politics, Hunted by Snowmobile 37:00 — Fertility Control as a Humane Alternative 39:00 — Why Every Animal Sequesters Carbon 40:00 — The Migratory Bird Treaty Act and Its Origins 44:00 — The Environmental Groups That Got This Wrong 47:00 — Direct Mail, Organizational Efficiency, and the 95% Program Model 50:00 — What Animal Wellness Action Has Actually Accomplished 53:00 — Wildfires, Forest Management, and Fossil Fuels 57:00 — The Colorado River and the Water Crisis 01:00:00 — What You Can Do: Congress, Donations, and Showing Up 01:02:00 — Closing: Inspired and Enraged Resources Wayne Pacelle on LinkedIn Animal Wellness Action — animalwellnessaction.org Center for Humane Economy — humaneeconomy.org Wayne Pacelle on X Wayne Pacelle on Instagram The Bond — Wayne Pacelle The Humane Economy — Wayne Pacelle Action Alert: Barred Owl Kill Plan Action Alert: Endangered Species Act Definition of Harm Donate to Animal Wellness Action Aldo Leopold — A Sand County Almanac Bill McKibben on Ezra Klein Show CONNECT & SUPPORT CARE MORE BE BETTERSubstack: https://caremorebebetter.substack.comYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/caremorebebetterTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@caremorebebetterInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/caremorebebetterFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/CareMoreBeBetterLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/care-more-be-betterCAUSE PARTNER: If you value open dialogue, sustainability, and social equity, I invite you to support our new cause partner —Prescott College. To learn more about this effort and to support the show, visit: https://caremorebebetter.com/support/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.