“There's no rule of law that's going to get us out of where we are,” says author and organizer Andrea Ritchie. In this episode, Andrea and Kelly discuss the role of criminalization in authoritarian and fascist regimes, and why “we need more outlaws” and less fetishization of “law and order.” You can find a transcript and show notes (including links to resources) here: truthout.org/series/movement-memos/ If you would like to support the show, you can donate here: bit.ly/TODonate If you would like to receive Truthout's newsletter, please sign up: bit.ly/TOnewsletter