What if the resistance you're seeing in your organization isn't defiance, it's information? What if the way you're talking about change is the very thing blocking it? Episode Summary In this episode of A World of Difference, host Lori Adams-Brown sits down with Jeff Wetherhold, founder of the Sustainable Change System and MI for Health, to unpack why 88% of organizational changes produce no lasting results, and what evidence-based leaders can do differently. Drawing on more than 20 years of experience and the robust science of motivational interviewing (MI), Jeff offers a radically practical reframe: your team isn't resistant. They're ambivalent. And that ambivalence is something you can actually work with. What You'll Learn Why traditional change management frameworks often fail — and what survey data reveals people actually need How to hear the difference between 'change talk' and 'sustain talk,' and why reflecting the wrong one can derail an entire initiative The evidence behind motivational interviewing: 2,000+ randomized control trials, 200+ meta-analyses, and applications across fields from healthcare to organizational transformation Why resistance is a 'blanket term' that blinds leaders to actionable insight — and what to ask instead The critical difference between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation, and why leaders who rely on extrinsic shortcuts exhaust themselves What makes change stick: the role of practice, systems, and sustained organizational support — not just training Guest Bio Jeff Wetherhold is the founder of the Sustainable Change System and MI for Health, where he equips leaders and organizations with evidence-based communication skills for navigating change. He is a faculty member with the Institute for Healthcare Improvement, a member of the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers (MINT), and a Prosci-Certified Change Practitioner, with clients including the State of Illinois, MIT, and the University of Nebraska Medical Center. Timestamps 00:00 Introduction — what if resistance is information? 02:30 Jeff's background: behavioral science, adult learning & change management 04:00 What the data says: 88% of organizational changes produce no lasting results 07:00 The 'why' problem — why leaders think they've communicated, but haven't 09:30 Cross-cultural dimensions of change communication (Erin Meyer, The Culture Map) 11:30 Intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation — why shortcuts backfire 14:30 What Jeff does differently: skills + practice vs. frameworks alone 18:00 What is motivational interviewing? Origins, evidence, and applications 21:50 Reframing resistance: change talk, sustain talk, and the 19x rule 28:40 Champions for change — why volunteering someone into a title isn't enough 34:40 Real stories: one manager's shift, and a holiday table breakthrough 38:55 How to work with Jeff + Patreon preview Check out the Patreon exclusive with Jeff on how he would advise a leader on talent strategy here. Connect with Jeff Website: jeffwetherhold.com LinkedIn: Jeff Wetherhold Sustainable Change System + MI for Health: jeffwetherhold.com Connect with the Show Subscribe, leave a review at https://www.aworldofdifferencepodcast.com/reviews/new/, and share this episode with five people who lead people through change. Visit https://www.aworldofdifferencepodcast.com for more resources. Join our Patreon community of Difference Makers: patreon.com/aworldadifference Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices