The Statue of Liberty and the Empire State Building loom large in the American imagination, symbolizing the conflicting ideas of liberty and empire; their meanings and characters have shifted over time as the American ethos has shifted. Joining me in this episode is writer, historian, and freelance editor, Dr. Vaneesa Cook, author of Empire and Liberty: The Tied Histories of Two American Landmarks.Our theme song is “Frogs Legs Rag,” composed by James Scott and performed by Kevin MacLeod, licensed under Creative Commons. The mid-episode audio is “Hail to the spirit of liberty,” composed by John Philip Sousa and performed by Prince’s Orchestra in New York City on January 11, 1912; the audio is in the public domain and is available via the Library of Congress National Jukebox. The episode image is a photograph of NASA’s prototype space shuttle Enterprise, mounted atop a NASA 747 Shuttle Carrier Aircraft 905, during a flyover of New York City on Friday, April 27, 2012; the photographer was Bill Ingalls, and the government image is in the public domain.Additional Sources:“Body of Iron, Soul of Fire: The Statue of Liberty,” by Jessie Kratz, National Archive Pieces of History, October 14, 2024.“Liberty Island Chronology,” Statue of Liberty, National Park Service.“Letter from Frédéric-Auguste Bartholdi (1834–1904) to his mother, June 24, 1871,” Frédéric-Auguste Bartholdi Papers, Manuscripts and Archives Division, New York Public Library.“Édouard Laboulaye and the Statue of Liberty: Forging the Democratic Experience,” by Stephen W. Sawyer, La lettre du Collège de France, 4, 2008-2009.“Gov. Alfred Emanuel Smith,” National Governors Association.“Oral history interviews with John J. Raskob family,” Hagley Digital Archives.“John J. Raskob Dies of a Heart Attack,” New York Times, October 16, 1950.“How the Empire State Building Was Built in Record Time,” by Tim Ott, History.com, Originally published October 10, 2024 and updated November 03, 2025.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands