Fraud in Law Firms: Trust Accounts, Controls, and ‘Surprise and Delight’ Auditing (with Kelley Brubaker, CPA)Connect with Kelley: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelleybrubaker/https://www.profitscalethrive.com/link-in-biohttps://www.profitscalethrive.com/abouthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQx-5aFarKk&list=PLg49S9w-ON1IsOz0v3sk8nMwD_1PuLXyV&index=23Host Kelly interviews Kelley Brubaker, CPA, who runs a 21-year accounting firm and has spent the last decade focused on law firms, about embezzlement patterns and practical prevention. Brubaker recounts her Big Four audit discovery of an ATM-deposit fraud and explains how theft often starts as “borrowing” that snowballs, especially when trust accounting is messy or poorly understood. They discuss gender patterns (men stealing higher dollar amounts, women more often), warning signs like sudden lifestyle changes, and why most law firms avoid reporting to law enforcement due to shame and reputation concerns, relying instead on DOJ press releases and bar discipline records for cases. Brubaker emphasizes controls and “surprise and delight” spot checks, limits on access (cards, signing, wires), the reality that banks don’t proactively verify signatures, and tools like Ramp to separate initiation and approval.00:00 Meet Two Kellys00:20 Fraudster Dinner Question01:11 Who Steals More03:26 Cookies And Red Flags05:08 Kelley's CPA Origin Story07:37 Law Firm Embezzlement Patterns10:30 Trust Accounts And Controls15:12 Surprise And Delight Audits17:33 Why Firms Avoid Police23:52 Signature Rules Dont Work28:59 Death Valley Firm Size31:15 Conference Q&A Confessions32:52 Money Mindset for Lawyers35:08 Nonprofit Fraud Hiring Story37:14 Fraud in Pop Culture Picks37:59 Career Path and Legal Research42:09 Clients Who Went to Jail43:57 Fraud Controls for Growing Firms48:34 Partnerships and Money Fights52:19 Tone at the Top and Tax Write Offs